Currently, 88mph protocol sell Yield-farmed tokens earned from the protocols it is connected to. The idea is to raise the yield for the staked MPH holder. I suggest that we start keeping these tokens and start using them as a way for the community to express their opinion on other protocols.
The protocols we work with, will appreciate that 88MPH doesn’t sell automatically their tokens. This will give us more power to work with them and maybe get some referral or such.
Community
On the short term it may reduce the yield for the stakers but on the long term, it will create a better community synergy. We will most likely lose yield chaser but gain governance fans.
Functionality
It will also add to the functionality of the MPH token. Stakers will now receive yield and be able to participate in other governance decision.
Argument against
Yield
It will reduce the yield for the stakers or MPH tokens.
Required actions
Create a front end page to track and record the vote from the community.
So what you are detailing in the proposal is the benefits towards playing the slow game with certain yield tokens is that we, as a protocol, get a “seat” at the table with aave, compound, yearn, and harvest. We would essentially slowly build a. Governance position within THEIR projects to benefit our own. And on a side note adding a degree of value to mph itself as a byproduct.
In my opinion it is a well-thinked idea but I am personally against it.
As a mph staker and hodler I really enjoy the yield that I get from staking my mph and I like it being this way. I see it as a way I am getting “compensated” for using and supporting the project.
The benefits of getting better synergy if we proceed with this proposal are not really guaranteed and I believe there’s a million other more ways to make and create good relationships with other projects.
Considering the risk/reward of this (maybe we do it and they never care about “our voting weight” on their projects), I would rather get the higher yield on my staking.
Just my personal opinion, it is a really interesting proposal and I would also love to hear what other mph stakers think about it (maybe I change my mind on it )
Thanks for you opinion Jumanpag.
Just to make sure it’s clear, this proposal will not impact the MPH you receive to use the protocol. So the “getting compensated” will still be there but will be a bit less since we won’t sell the governance token. I will check to see the % that this mean.
For your second point, the synergy is guarantee since we will be able to vote for what we believe is good for the protocol. There is currently a really good example on Aave. BarnBridge is trying to get listed on Aave and it will most likely not pass. If they had a lot of Aave token, they could be able to vote yes.
I understand your point of view but prefer the long view for the protocol vs the short term gain in DAI.
Yes but also at the moment the yield is already kind of low if you are a small player and even not worth to stake most of the times considering the gas prices that we have today.
Of course maybe this is not the case for an mph whale and they wouldn’t care if the yield gets reduced since they are getting a big portion of the rewards and they will for sure consider the long term of the project
But in my opinion lowering the yield will reduce even more the incentives for newcomers to hold and stake their mph if they just want to buy and hold not really big amounts of the token . Instead of staking and hodling, seeing the rewards low would make them just leave and this could be a negative impact for the growth of our own community
What I am trying to say is that in my opinion there are we have other options that could be explored to create better synergies with other projects that could be considered with less potential negative impact
Hey Jumanpag, thanks for your follow up. Really like to see all the opinion.
I think that at this point it’s a question of if you believe the protocol have some value long term or not. That’s your call For me, being able to participate in others governance as a group is a lot more powerful than to do 0.5% of DAI on my MPH.
There will be some incentives at the same time with the release of V3 to make sure small users are incentivized to use the protocol. At the end of the day don’t forget that the goal is to create a good product not just get a quick return on investment at the expense of the grow of the protocol.
Just my 2 cents
In my opinion the best part of what Mathieu is proposing is the additional flexibility and the opportunity to be intentional with assets the protocol is accumulating on behalf of the stakers. I feel very strongly about the idea of accumulating these tokens. There’s a lot of great discussion I believe that can be opened up here. The following immediately comes to mind:
What protocols should we hold? Should we hold all of tokens we accumulate?
Does this mean there’s an opportunity to later decide how to re-allocate these funds or change how they are used? (claimed, distributed, sold, used in future proposals, used in future product offerings)
As the 88MPH TVL grows, won’t we be acting as increasingly larger selling pressure on these protocols? I’m sure it may be a negligible amount today, but what happens TVL starts growing? (What does $10+ billion USD in TVL accumulating and dumping protocol tokens look like?)
If we do decide to sell them, don’t we at the very least owe it to ourselves to take a step back and investigate how adding a vesting period to the protocol’s tokens might benefit everyone?
In the absolute absolute absolute worst case scenario if ROI and yield is your concern, I see this as the DeFi equivalent of a balance sheet. Microstrategy buying Bitcoin. Now their stock price is tethered to Bitcoin. These are top protocols-- exploding in growth. Having an increasingly growing share and voice in these protocols is very valuable and inherently strengthens the 88mph value proposition.
I think all paths for me lead to being in favor of accumulating the protocol tokens and potentially re-evaluating in 3-6-12 months.
To answer your 3rd point: This is a meta governance play, not a yield play. The intention of the protocol saving the tokens it currently generates would be to accumulate a large governance position over a very long period of time. Being as 88mph is positioned to be a key defi player and key FIRB provider in the space, having access to the decisions of “blue” chips" in the space is a great value prop. However, like @Jumanpag mentioned, this is to a certain degree detrimental to yield in the short to mid term. Personally, I think that extremely small DAI
yield being reduced isn’t going to bother anybody given it was incredibly small in the first place proportional to the FIRBs.
Of course! I was just trying to express that even if yield/ROI is your concern, this proposal should interest you greatly with the ability to take a step back and be intentional with future decisions regarding these assets down the line.
If I understand your proposal correctly; it’s about the MPH tokens rewarded to liquidity providers on platforms like Sushi and Uniswap right? Or also the staked MPH on this platform? As I never used those platforms for staking, only Bancor because of their IL-protection, I like the idea you’re proposing.
I bought MPH with a long time horizon and from what I read earlier and have understood from the MPH Community calls, I think it’s about getting the ‘connections’ with other protocols, which could be basis for long term succes of the project which might increase token value (which we all want).
In a certain way I do agree with @Jumanpag here. Staking your MPH on Sushi and Uni earlier, could be short term benefical. But I rather see people staking MPH on the 88mph platform it self and get rewarded for that in stead in a certain way (xMPH) (governance+yield).
Hey @0xCajmere thanks for your post.
Just to clarify, when you stake your MPH on the 88mph page, you receive :
10% of the FIRB interest when a depositor withdraws.
Yield-farming rewards: the farmed tokens that are earned from the protocols we are connected to (COMP and FARM).
All of this is done via DAI. This proposal is only to remove the Yield Farming reward. Instead of selling them for DAI and giving them in reward, we would keep the reward and be able to vote on these protocols as a community. The yield-farming yield is really low and will be way more profitable to keep these tokens.
Ah right; that’s clear.
Well it doesn’t change my view.
I think the 10% firb interest would be enough to keep staking the mph on the platform. Maybe some seasonal NFT drop for stakers would encourage this.
And yes I think it’s good to have collect the yield farming tokens for external governance decisions. Though only when it makes an impact. I do understand it takes a while to grow the amount of these tokens, but I can see the value in long term. Maybe you could think of some threshold on these. Like for example, owning a certain amount / percentage of the goverance token to vote, and all tokens above this percentage can be distributed via DAI.
But yeah if this proposal comes to a vote I would vote for it.
I’m in-favor of meta governance only if there is a directly benefit to 88mph by holder other assets. I can see a use case for holding AAVE and potentially COMP, but I don’t see a reason to hold something like FARM.
If we do decide to move forward with meta-governance, it should be decided for each asset individually as they don’t all offer the same value to the protocol.
100% on this. Each asset should be voted and we should even decided the % we want to keep.
We could also determine a cap of how much asset we are ok to hold. I think that the treasury should have his majority of asset in MPH and/or MPH LPs.
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